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Since When Is Honduras a Libertarian Paradise?!

Since When Is Honduras a Libertarian Paradise?!
Profile photo of Robert P. Murphy

It’s probably a good sign that the attacks on libertarianism are getting even more ridiculous. A recent Salon piece by HondurasEdwin Lyngar claims that his recent trip to Honduras proves that the principles espoused by people like Ayn Rand and Ron Paul don’t work. (!) Let’s run through this article, just for fun.

Last month, I spent my final vacation night in Honduras in San Pedro Sula, considered the most dangerous city outside of the war-torn Middle East. I would not have been scared, except that I traveled with my wife and our four children…

It was a surreal moment, traveling in one of the most dangerous cities in the world with my babies in tow.  I gave a nod to the radio. “Willie,” I said, and he gave me a grin and vigorous “sí.” There’s a lot of American cowboy culture in Honduras, but along with silly hats, Honduras has also taken one of our other worst ideas—libertarian politics. By the time I’d made it to San Pedro Sula, I’d seen much of the countryside and culture.  It’s a wonderful place, filled with music, great coffee, fabulous cigars and generous people, but it’s also a libertarian experiment coming apart.

Now at this point, you might be surprised. Have you ever heard any libertarian claiming that Honduras is a paradise, or an experiment in the philosophy? I sure haven’t.

For example, the Fraser Institute’s most recent Freedom index ranks Honduras as the 55th freest country in the world (as of 2012), right behind Botswana and just ahead of Uganda. To be fair, there are other notable countries like Israel and France right next to Honduras in the rankings, so I’m not claiming that it’s a socialist nightmare. But 55th in the world is hardly a libertarian experiment, and most progressives don’t point to France as a Ron Paul ideal.

To get more specific numbers, we can consult the Heritage Foundation’s ranking. In its 2015 Index, Heritage puts Honduras as 116th in the world in terms of economic freedom. It shows that Honduras has government expenditures of 27% of domestic output, and government debt of 40% of GDP. The overall tax burden is 16% of domestic income. The consumer price inflation rate is 5.2%. It’s not North Korea, granted, but it’s hardly the stuff of Atlas Shrugged either.

In any event, let’s move on to the Salon writer’s narrative, to hear in his own words how Honduras shows the flaws in libertarianism:

In America, libertarian ideas are attractive to mostly young, white men with high ideals and no life experience that live off of the previous generation’s investments and sacrifice.  I know this because as a young, white idiot, I subscribed to this system of discredited ideas:  Selfishness is good, government is bad. Take what you want, when you want and however you can.  Poor people deserve what they get, and the smartest, hardworking people always win.  So get yours before someone else does.  I read the books by Charles Murray and have an autographed copy of Ron Paul’s “The Revolution.” The thread that links all the disparate books and ideas is that they fail in practice.  Eliminate all taxes, privatize everything, load a country up with guns and oppose all public expenditures, you end up with Honduras.

It is at least coherent when progressives point to Somalia as an example of the dream of libertarians, because the State really did collapse there. (And that’s why things improved for the Somalis–really.) But Honduras hasn’t eliminated all taxes, privatized everything, and ceased all public expenditures. So it’s hard to see what it has to do with libertarian utopias. You don’t need to take my word for it, either. We’ll continue to quote from the Salon writer to show that his own testimony admits that Honduras isn’t a libertarian experiment.

For example, the very next sentences say: “In Honduras, the police ride around in pickup trucks with machine guns, but they aren’t there to protect most people.  They are scary to locals and travelers alike.” So if the government has been disbanded with no taxes and expenditures, and full privatization, then how can there be government police riding around?

What’s happening here is that the author is conflating “libertarians don’t like government doing anything” with “a government doing things badly.” So for example, if (say) North Korean soldiers lined up a bunch of students who were caught plotting against the regime and executed them, our Salon writer would think, “This is applied libertarianism, because Murray Rothbard didn’t like government schools.” But let’s go back to the piece, to the single most absurd paragraph:

The greatest examples of libertarianism in action are the hundreds of men, women and children standing alongside the roads all over Honduras.  The government won’t fix the roads, so these desperate entrepreneurs fill in potholes with shovels of dirt or debris.  They then stand next to the filled-in pothole soliciting tips from grateful motorists.  That is the wet dream of libertarian private sector innovation.

The cognitive dissonance here is astounding. The guy types out that the government “won’t fix the roads,” that private entrepreneurs do the best they can to fix the government’s mess, and then ask for voluntary donations, rather than shaking people down. And this is taken as an indictment of capitalism, rather than the State. Let me ask the author: What would the world need to look like, for the author to think the State had failed in its duties?

Now I suppose the progressives would come back and say, “But you libertarians told us the roads would be beautiful if only private entrepreneurs could run them!” Right. These roads weren’t privatized. The State was still the owner, and the State–according to our author–didn’t maintain them. I’m pretty sure if a multinational corporation came in, repaved the roads, and set up toll booths, the Honduras government–with its military and police–would say, “You can’t do that, those are our roads.” (The Salon writer had linked to this piece, discussing the “neo-liberal” reforms and outside companies coming in. OK, if he wants to say that’s bad, point to some examples of what those companies are doing. Local Hondurans filling in potholes in State-owned roads sure isn’t an indictment of privatization.)

Let’s do one more:

Alberto took me on a small hike to a spot overlooking the city and pointed out new construction and nice buildings.  There are new buildings and construction but it is funded exclusively by private industry.  He pointed out a place for a new airport that could be the biggest in Central America, he said, if only it could get built, but there is no private sector upside.  Alberto made me see the potential, the hope and even the hidden beauty of the place.

Again, the non sequitur here is astonishing. The author looks at new buildings and construction produced by private enterprise. Then he looks at an empty lot, where there is no airport, and argues that this empty lot proves that State funding of infrastructure is superior to private funding.

Let me hit that again from another angle. If there had been a government-funded airport, then it would be coherent to point to it and say, “See? The market wouldn’t have built that.” This is what statists in the U.S. often do, when it comes to football stadiums and dams that only exist because of tax support. There, the proper response is Bastiat’s “seen and unseen.” But at least it’s understandable that people could look at an existing building that the State produced, and count that as evidence in favor of the usefulness of the State.

Yet this writer pointed to an empty lot as evidence that the Honduran government was better at building airports than the private sector.

All in all, I think it’s probably for the best that this guy abandoned his support for libertarianism and is now producing articles for Salon.

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  • http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com/ Trutherator

    I just came back here to this article somehow, and this time actually went to the Salon article. Such disconnect from reality, so easy to debunk. My wife is from Honduras so I followed the events of 2009 very closely and the ZEDEs as much as possible after that.

    The counter-coup (against the auto-coup plotting president Manuel Zelaya) was OPPOSED by the United States. The U.S. Ambassador Hugo Llorens was featured in official propaganda for Zelda’s fraudulent “referendum” and “survey” as supporting it. He was a frequent guest at the Presidential Palace.
    (and
    At the previous November 2008 presidential summit of the Caribbean and Central America, where Zelaya was in attendance, George Soros was the keynote speaker. Zelaya returned to Honduras and immediately began preparing for his strong-man lifetime presidency.

    Oligarch Media in the U. S. (and presumably Canada) blacked out coverage of that event. It is rare they cover events in Honduras, so they weren’t aware of the massive demonstrations against Zelaya before his arrest, and why.

    U. S. meddling included a personal call from Secy. of State Hillary Clinton to interim president Micheletti, ordering him to resign and restore Zelaya to power. He refused, so she asked him “what will it take” to make it happen, a thinly veiled bribe offer: “Name your price”. Chavez offered him USD $3 million to resign and he refused. A hero for Honduras.

    In an interview he responded to a question by saying that if they had to they could eat rice and beans. Latin America’s people, and a few of the governments, cheered Honduras quietly. And Latin American history pivoted afterward more away from the leftward tilt. El Salvador’s president, of the party of former guerrillas, announced they were not going to join the Chavez oil club. A former president of Guatemala pondered aloud about merging the foreign relations departments of the neighboring states. The mayor of Caracas wanted to import cojones from Honduras.

    Short time later Paraguay impeached a runaway socialist president who in a short few months went off the rails. Now Brazil, Argentina have stepped back from the brink, and Chile’s president faces trouble.

    The world government of the “Beast”, it says, will rule all tribes and nations. That sounds like the United Nations, which claims jurisdiction over all of them, and indeed the U. N. has built their regional hierarchies in that way.

    But just as many of today’s “national governments” do not have complete control over parts of their territory, the same will no doubt happen with the Beast and his worker bees. There will be areas of resistance and rebellion.

    (And you Christians will be needed to help everyone else understand, as in Daniel, including you pre-tribbers)

  • martin woyzeck

    I would’ve thought this writer would’ve come up with intelligent points as to how Honduras is not a libertaryan paradise. But he didn’t. You guys are a pathetic joke. A fascist ,corporate pathetic joke.

  • Markthetog

    So in Libertarian paradise the armed guys would be unimpeded by government guys as it would have been disbanded? So a good business would be extortion? Where does law enforcement come in with Libertarians? Maybe shortly before the part where they realize they have rationalized themselves into the idiot box?
    Somalia might be a better model. Check it out?

    • martin woyzeck

      You’re spot on. Libertaryans seem to leave out quite a few important aspects that would make a libertaryan society a nightmare

    • http://www.reverbnation.com/arena Marcel Casella

      Law enforcement would be the use of violence ONLY in response of other initiating it. What you describe is anarchy in its corrupted sense.

      When a corrupt government dissappears, corrupt people do not. They keep exerting coercion and become a de facto government (not de iure), and you might have no official government, but there are people who extort or enforce some kind of “law” on others. Thats what you have in Somalia. That´s no libertarian paradise, thats a socialist paradise since it will be easier to convince people that a strong government is needed in order to get that country back on track (and it might be true).

      The idea libertarians have is that you can be armed and go unimpeded as long as you dont initiate the use of force against others. The government should immediately retaliate once the use of force starts, and also allow individuals to defend themselves.

      It is kind of difficult to imagine such a social arrangement, but countries that have effectively enforced laws and also let people carry weapons are less violent than countries where laws are sporadically enforced and have heavy gun control laws.

      Libertarianism is not for crony businesses that control the government as they would need violence to get rid of competition or gain unfair privileges. Libertarianism is not anarchy, either. Anarchy-capítalists exist and they share many of the libertarian ideas, but there is a hot debate among them on whether ths state should exist or not. I for one, still see some use for the state, but a very limited one, such as the one the founding fathers imagined.

  • Kyle Varner

    You are correct. That troll from salon is so wrong his first grade teacher must be ashamed.

    • martin woyzeck

      Wow, what an intelligent comment. Typical libertaryan reply

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  • nvrbl

    I do not see the difference between libertarianism and fascism. Can someone explain to me?

    • http://www.reverbnation.com/arena Marcel Casella

      If you do not see the difference, then you have not even taken the time to read. Why would anyone waste their time in someone who would not even google?

      • nvrbl

        Actually, I got the idea FROM reading the views of leaders such as Petri Friedman.
        Him and others say that everyone does not get to vote because the majority will never accept Libertarian rule. They basically want industry to run the government. How is it not Fascism when industry runs the government?
        These are people who are seeking to start Libertarian communities in places like Honduras and floating Libertarian communities.

        • http://www.reverbnation.com/arena Marcel Casella

          And when did “industries” run the government during Fascism?

          Fascism is a way of ruling in which the state is the predominant factor for everything, including the “economic direction” of the nation. They employ liturgical elements to make of the “nation” a symbol and a goal in itself, urging or forcing the whole population to work and live for the glory of the nation.

          Industries that adhered to the fascist regimes, enjoyed great privileges and could eliminate their competitions trough the use of political power and violence, this is pure mercantilism and crony capitalism. Those who didn´t like the way things were run faced a harsh choice: obey or be expropriated.

          Libertarianism disregards concepts like nation, and abhors the idea of a central planner (leader or group) telling industries what to produce, how much and to what end.

          Fascism is everything libertarians despise.

          The only way a libertarian “utopia” turns into a fascism is that one industry (it would be irrationally difficult to make all people involved in all industries to follow a plan) holds enough power to employ violence against all others (so it becomes a de facto state).

          LIbertarianism is not anarchism however. The state, as a result of a social contract (debatable), has the only purpose of responding to violence without initiating it. It only uses violence against those who would initiate it against others, and allows the right to self defense as well.

          Fascism uses violence to coerce its subjects to do as the leader wills.

          There are many defenders of fascism who would paint it under a beautiful light, and in fact, Italy did great things under it, and regained much of their pride. But it is a collectivist way of thinking and requires the submission of the individual to society or the “nation”.

          Libertarianism is the other way around: the individual must never be subjugated or sacrificed for a “greater good”. This is pure individualism. Many people confound individualism with the attitude of fascist leaders who were really selfish looking to subjugate the rest of the society. But even the leaders are collectivists because they truly believe society is a living being with a will of its own and individuals are less important than whatever goal they set for them, and believe that in order to achieve the goals of the nation, it is acceptable to sacrifice a few (or a lot of) individuals.

          Libertarians believe the individual is a goal in itself, and is greater than the society, because, in the end, without individuals there is no society.

          • martin woyzeck

            That’s a lot of double talk with no substance.
            Your libertaryan movers and shakers are precisely pushing for a fascist society.
            The problem with words are they’re words, that hold no substance.
            Words lie. And most of what is said about libertaryan is the exact opposite of what is done, or attempted to do, through bills/policies,etc.

          • http://www.reverbnation.com/arena Marcel Casella

            This is obviously a strawman.

            First of all, what you describe as the “substance” is what happens when government takes over everything.

            GOvernments are experts at making things “public”, and then assigning them to crony capitalists. One other way of doing things for them is “privatizing” things and then just giving it to the biggest lobbyists.

            What you are complaining about is not libertarianism. Of course there are big names and multinational companies trying to acquire monopolies. They prefer to have privileges conferred by governments (mostly those who proclaim to be socialists in nature because they have effective control over the economy at large). But, if they cannot have it that way, they just put key people in government and do everything in their power to control the entity in charge of a whole industry. They become racketeers and push real producers to bankruptcy or just plainly outlaw them.

            What you have is a confusion. We do believe in privatization but only in equal legal terms for everyone. What you complain about is corporativism. People who want privatization BUT not in equal terms. Those have tax breaks, or legal monopolies all given by the state. Be it because they are friends of someone in power or because they declare that they are as socially responsible as the ruling party. These are con artists, and they do not thrive in equal legal terms. They only prosper IF they get to be above the law, or if the law is written in their own terms.

            I know you won´t even bother to read more because when someone is using pejorative terms to define others (Libertaryans), he is not following reason but faith and/or hatred. But I kindly extend an invitation to read. We have a common goal: Stop big names and companies from controlling the state or creating monopolies that will, ultimately, erode freedom and enslave us all. If you care to be better informed, you will realize that you might share many of our tenets.

        • martin woyzeck

          You’re correct nvrbl.
          Libertaryans are big on privatizing everything.
          Owning everything,including politicians and government.
          It is fascism, and it is libertaryanism, as well.

          • http://www.reverbnation.com/arena Marcel Casella

            You speak of double talk, and lack of susbtance. Your two comments have been full of hot air and nothing more than ad hominem attacks. Where is your substance?

    • martin woyzeck

      There is no difference. Libertaryans are fascists. They want a totalitarian regime.
      In America, they add chritianity to it. So it’s a christian ,fascist, libertaryan nation

      • http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com/ Trutherator

        That is so friggin’ hilarious! Emperor has no clothes, and sycophants parroting what nice robes he has.

  • JoeD

    Holy god. To know that such stupidity (Salon) exists (though I’ve known it for some time, it’s just worth reiterating) sends a chill through my bones.

    • Bob_Robert

      There have been a flurry of such articles in Salon of late. In my jaded opinion, they are trying to prevent their readers from investigating what “libertarianism” is by creating these hobgoblins.

      • martin woyzeck

        Quite the opposite. Most of us opposed to a totalitarian libertaryan world is far more knowledged in libertaryanism than the best of libertaryans.
        You’re all over the map. When someone points out why libertaryanism is a joke, libertaryans only reply is ‘well, that’s not really libertaryanism’.

        • Bob_Robert

          I’m sorry, could you check your spelling? I cannot discern what it is you are talking about.

          If you mean individual liberty, then the term “totalitarian libertaryan” is an oxymoron. Leaving you alone is not “totalitarian”.

          • martin woyzeck

            My spelling is fine. What is it you’re not comprehending?
            It’s quite clear. What exactly is it you cannot discern?
            The entire philosophy of your interpretation of libertaryan is an oxymoron.
            What the Libertaryan party espouses is the opposite of any kind of liberty, individual or community.
            Totalitarian libertaryan is correct. It tells exactly what the libertaryan party is all about.
            I’m not clear on what you’re not comprehending.

          • Bob_Robert

            “What is it you’re not comprehending?”

            Your inability to spell “libertarian”.

            “It’s quite clear. What exactly is it you cannot discern?”

            Your inability to spell “libertarian”.

            “The entire philosophy of your interpretation of libertaryan is an oxymoron.”

            False. There is no contradiction between individual liberty and individual responsibility. They are synonymous.

            “What the Libertaryan party espouses is the opposite of any kind of liberty, individual or community.”

            That is a false assertion without support. You are also conflating a “party”, without identifying that party, with a principle, which is false.

            A “party” can propose policies which reflect a principle, or not. So far, you have given no evidence for your assertion.

            “Totalitarian libertaryan is correct.”

            Only because you have given no definition of this “libertaryan” fantasy of yours. Thus you can claim anything.

            “I’m not clear on what you’re not comprehending.”

            Your inability to spell “libertarian”.

            “Please explain yourself. Can you do that?”

            For someone who has made bald, mocking assertions without evidence, without argument, without support of any kind, you sure do like to pretend to be misunderstood.

          • Rick Papineau

            Remarkable that you didn’t get the joke he was making. Perhaps if it was written differently? Try this: libertARYAN. Do you get the part he was stressing now? It’s like “libtard” or “republikkkan”, I assume.

          • Bob_Robert

            He wasn’t joking.

          • martin woyzeck

            I do understand that libertaryans have a difficult time discerning anything that is not of their brainwashed thinking.

          • Bob_Robert

            For someone who is incapable of spelling, you sure do go on and on.

  • Anders Hass
    • martin woyzeck

      I’ve debated tom league of the south’ woods. He’s pretty weak for a Harvard grad.
      He had zero substance to his argument in favor of libertaryanism.

      • Bob_Robert

        Considering your lack of argument, and inability to spell, I’d say rather that you didn’t like Tom proving you wrong over, and over, and over again.

        • Anders Hass

          His last name might hint at that English isn’t his native language 😉

          • martin woyzeck

            hahaha…..you rightwingers truly lack education and culture.
            It’s embarrassing to see how many non native English speakers can speak and write, and comprehend English better than Americans.

            That being said, English is my native language.
            I’m just not of the reichwing, so I received a good education.
            For the record, I don’t use my real name on the net, first or last.
            Never have.

            Woyzeck is the name of a famous play, for your information.
            But you wouldn’t know that, lacking culture and education.
            So much for you trying to find some ‘angle’ as to heritage.
            If you’re on facebook, you’re probably the type that looks at someone’s profile, as you can’t give any argument of substance, so you slink to trying to get personal.

            Looking at your name ‘Hass’, sounds quite nazi German to me.
            That’s fitting for a libertaryan.

          • Anders Hass

            Oy vey

          • http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-anarchism-is-not-a-romantic-fable-but-the-hardheaded-realization-based-on-five-thousand-edward-abbey-41-88-49.jpg Phil Miller

            Newburger!

          • Deplorableman

            Little Pollack Jewboy. Too bad Hitler didn’t get you.

          • Bob_Robert

            The misspelling appears a deliberate effort to attach the Socialism of the Nazis to the idea of liberty, through the “aryan” error. From his response to this comment of yours, it’s clear that he’s claiming cultural superiority as well.

            It’s sad when folks who claim such superiority can’t think.

        • martin woyzeck

          Libertaryans don’t know how to argue/debate, even with all those tutorials from Woods, Paul, Jones.
          I’ve made no spelling mistakes, so unclear as to what you’re referring to, although your comments have numerous grammatical,punctuation,etc. mistakes. I would look at that, if I were you.
          Tommie couldn’t prove anything. That’s what was laughable.
          I was surprised at how easy it was to bury him with simple points. He was simply flustered.

          • Bob_Robert

            “Libertaryans don’t know how to argue/debate”

            For someone who cannot spell, you sure do like to tell other people their faults.

            You have made bald, mocking assertions without support, without evidence, without argument.

            If that is what you call debate, then like the pigeon who knocks over the pieces and shits on the board, you may claim to have won the chess game.

        • martin woyzeck

          Considering you can only tell someone they lack argument, yet cannot give an argument of substance yourself, I’d say that shows you lack any sense of argument

          • Bob_Robert

            “yet cannot give an argument of substance yourself”

            Bald faced lie.

            As Anders Hass discerned clearly, you are a waste of time.

    • martin woyzeck

      What I see from many libertaryans, is they constantly bombard threads with links of what someone else said.
      That shows me whoever does that, doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
      They can only say ‘see……what he says in the article’.
      No mind of your own.

      • Anders Hass

        Well I didn’t argue for anything with my bombardment of a link 😛

        Just more on this subject from libertarians 😛

      • http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-anarchism-is-not-a-romantic-fable-but-the-hardheaded-realization-based-on-five-thousand-edward-abbey-41-88-49.jpg Phil Miller

        Says the troll who can’t uses commas, question marks, or ellipses properly.

        Another illiterate, low-wattage troll to the block list.

        • Judy Conaway

          Who can’t uses? Check your own usage before criticizing others!

          • http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-anarchism-is-not-a-romantic-fable-but-the-hardheaded-realization-based-on-five-thousand-edward-abbey-41-88-49.jpg Phil Miller

            It’s called a typo. That’s different than illiteracy. But you knew that. Right?

          • Judy Conaway

            Is using “different than”, rather than the more grammatically correct “different from”, also a typo?

          • http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-anarchism-is-not-a-romantic-fable-but-the-hardheaded-realization-based-on-five-thousand-edward-abbey-41-88-49.jpg Phil Miller

            Don’t be cunty. Both are accepted in standard American English and have been in use for the last 300 years. This ain’t formal writing. Now GTFO with your nitpicks.

          • Judy Conaway

            I thought that libertarianism in Honduras was a very interesting topic, and wanted to read different points of view. It became very disappointing to have posters disrespect the opinions of other posters. It should be possible to share an opinion without being called a troll or critized for not having perfect grammar or spelling ability. My “nitpicking” of your post was to let you know what that type of unfair criticism feels like. Your response tells me that you didn’t like it very much!

            No one is perfect, and what someone says should be more important than how they say (or spell) it. I find it disheartening that there is so little tolerance on public forums.

    • martin woyzeck

      Funny how libertaryans think they’re somewhere in the middle of dem/repubs, completely denying they’re the far rightwing.
      Tom Woods was one of the founders of League of the South.
      The League of the South is the think tank faction of the KKK.
      Everyone except libertaryans know that. Why is that?

      • Anders Hass

        It’s beltway libertarians that argues libertarianism is in the middle 😛

        And Ino Tom was a member of the League of the South

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  • bandito707

    FYI, here’s a Free Cities Honduras group on Facebook, and it’s quite active – https://www.facebook.com/groups/freecitieshonduras/. A lot of articles being referenced there about the ZEDEs.

  • bandito707

    I think the reason Honduras has become associated with libertarianism is because of the recent Free Cities Honduras movement which has focused on the proposed ZEDEs – http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/06/honduran-free-cities-get-one-step-closer. I have a feeling the author knew about these and probably assumed we did too so he was too lazy to reference anything about the ZEDEs. Or I could be entirely giving him too much credit.

  • http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com/ Trutherator

    My wife is from Honduras, and it is nothing like libertarian.
    The only thing they have in common with libertarians is that they hate the idea of falling under the socialism that the USA promoted with Manuel Zelaya through the American ambassador Hugo Llorens. AND they may soon have a few free-market (partially) enclaves with the ZEDE project, for which I have some hope.

    • Ed Ferrusquia

      If the idea of stripping autonomy and sovereignty from people and handing it over to a handful of wealthy corporate investors is your idea of “hope”, you probably rooted for OCP in Robocop, too. You don’t stand for freedom at all. ZEDE is despicable.

      • http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com/ Trutherator

        You don’t know anything about ZEDE. And I only said “I have hope” for ZEDE to do something, because whenever people are involved nothing is certain, especially when politicians are getting their dirty hands in the middle.

        Anyway which do you want? If you had to go to the Korean peninsula and were given a choice between North Korea and South Korea which one would you take?

        How about a choice between Soviet-era East Germany, dominated by “democratic republic” corporation-hating Communists, or, Soviet-era West Germany, dominated by evil corporations.

        Corporations should be abolished along with the state because they are creations of the state.

    • Ed Ferrusquia

      If the idea of stripping autonomy and sovereignty from people and handing it over to a handful of wealthy corporate investors is your idea of “hope”, you probably rooted for OCP in Robocop, too. You don’t stand for freedom at all. ZEDE is despicable.

      • http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com/ Trutherator

        You don’t know anything about ZEDE. And I only said “I have hope” for ZEDE to do something, because whenever people are involved nothing is certain, especially when politicians are getting their dirty hands in the middle.

        Anyway which do you want? If you had to go to the Korean peninsula and were given a choice between North Korea and South Korea which one would you take?

        How about a choice between Soviet-era East Germany, dominated by “democratic republic” corporation-hating Communists, or, Soviet-era West Germany, dominated by evil corporations.

        Corporations should be abolished along with the state because they are creations of the state.

        • martin woyzeck

          Love how reichwing libertaryans say ‘you don’t know anything about…..’, without knowing if a person does or does not. All it shows is you don’t have a solid argument.

          • http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com/ Trutherator

            Your comments on ZEDE show just what I said. Legislators made clear they weren’t handing over sovereignty, and besides, the HONDURANS THEMSELVES wanted this, they want this.

            My HONDURAN wife and all her family have hope for ZEDE. It’s a LOT better plan than the Venezuela model!!!!

      • http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com/ Trutherator

        The ZEDE is a sovereign Honduran initiative passed by the lawful and constitutional representatives of the Honduran people, no matter what kind of lying sniveling slander the multi-national corporations and crony governments and fascists want to say otherwise.

        And in every charter under ZEDE is by law the explicit provision that they are subject to Honduran law.

        What irks the Left and the political class both in Honduras and in the United States is that they are afraid it will result in a mass movement of Honduras out of poverty. That scares the socialist power mad demagogues, including the globalists who are out to consolidate their world wide dictatorship. They need the people to stay poor so they can lie and promise to make things better.

        The ZEDE plan is based in Honduran legislation and conformed to its constitution. This is a Honduran initiative despite everything the U. S. and international bankers might want to say otherwise, because the international fascists and cronies prefer to keep the people poor south of the border.

        –read the rest of my reaction at http://www.trutherator.wordpress.com
        Chile survived Allende’s Marxist destruction of its economy, then it survived the Pinochet dictatorship, and then it bounced back by puling back interference with the free market.

  • David Wallace

    The funny thing about this article is that the kids fixing the potholes and asking for donations probably dug the potholes the night before. Duh!

  • David Wallace

    The funny thing about this article is that the kids fixing the potholes and asking for donations probably dug the potholes the night before. Duh!

  • Pingback: The Liberty Crier – Issue #1 – March 11th, 2015 - Liberty Crier()

  • bandito707

    I think the reason Honduras has become associated with libertarianism is because of the recent Free Cities Honduras movement which has focused on the proposed ZEDEs – http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/06/honduran-free-cities-get-one-step-closer. I have a feeling the author knew about these and probably assumed we did too so he was too lazy to reference anything about the ZEDEs. Or I could be entirely giving him too much credit.

  • bandito707

    FYI, here’s a Free Cities Honduras group on Facebook, and it’s quite active – https://www.facebook.com/groups/freecitieshonduras/. A lot of articles being referenced there about the ZEDEs.

  • JoeD

    Holy god. To know that such stupidity (Salon) exists (though I’ve known it for some time, it’s just worth reiterating) sends a chill through my bones.

  • Bob_Robert

    There have been a flurry of such articles in Salon of late. In my jaded opinion, they are trying to prevent their readers from investigating what “libertarianism” is by creating these hobgoblins.

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Robert P. Murphy is the Senior Economist at the Institute for Energy Research, and a Senior Fellow with the Fraser Institute. He holds a PhD in economics from New York University. Murphy is the author of Choice: Cooperation, Enterprise, and Human Action (Independent Institute, 2015) as well as numerous other books and hundreds of articles.

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